Jump to content

Disclaimer



Photo

Facebook for Authors: Page or Profile


  • Please log in to reply
81 replies to this topic

#61 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:39 PM

Pictures, can get a good reach, too. (Surprisingly to me, though, I've not gotten as broad a reach with images as I have with links.) And images that you upload yourself (that aren't the custom clickable link images Crew showed us how to do) retain the link back to your page. It will always say "so and so shared J. Lea Lopez's photo" no matter who they shared it from. 

 

That's actually very good to know about the mechanics of sharing photos and how it retains ownership.



#62 J. Lea Lopez

J. Lea Lopez

    Glamourscribe

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,043 posts
  • Literary Status:self-published, unagented
  • LocationUS Midwest
  • Publishing Experience:My work first appeared in Divine Dirt Quarterly and Oysters&Chocolate. Sadly, these are both out of print now. More recently, my short stories have appeared in two anthologies (The Spring and The Fall) from Elephant's Bookshelf Press. I have self published two novels and a short story collection.

Posted 25 September 2014 - 11:29 AM

Go to bed, BUT do think about this: why do you think you're links -- just links with no photos -- are getting such good reach.  We're in Jeanne's camp that it's all about the photo, so how are you making it work with just links?

You know, I'm not sure. Because I've always also subscribed to the general consensus that images are super important and more likely to be shared. So I was surprised when I really looked at my insights way back when we first started this discussion and found that image posts were actually #2, behind link posts in terms of my reach and engagement. I have no idea why.

 

For links, my average reach is 137 and average engagement is 15 clicks and 4 likes/comments/shares. For images, average reach is 90 and engagement is 8 clicks and 7 likes/comments/shares. Text status has a reach of 82, 4 clicks, 8 likes/comments/shares.

 

Is it worthwhile to note the relationship between reach and post clicks? Or am I an anomaly there? I find it strange that more likes/comments/shares doesn't correlate to a higher organic reach, but post clicks does. There are a few individual posts for me that don't fit that trend, but overall it seems pretty

 

Perhaps also important is the fact that FB seems to treat uploaded video shares as link posts. Same goes if you share another page's update where they've uploaded multiple photos.



#63 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 25 September 2014 - 01:17 PM

You know, I'm not sure. Because I've always also subscribed to the general consensus that images are super important and more likely to be shared. So I was surprised when I really looked at my insights way back when we first started this discussion and found that image posts were actually #2, behind link posts in terms of my reach and engagement. I have no idea why.

 

 

Ah, yes... now, we understand.  

 

Our link posts have higher engagement, too, but that's because when we make a "clickable custom photo" that links to our Amazon's book page, FB is calling that a link -- not a photo.

 

 

Is it worthwhile to note the relationship between reach and post clicks? Or am I an anomaly there? I find it strange that more likes/comments/shares doesn't correlate to a higher organic reach, but post clicks does. There are a few individual posts for me that don't fit that trend, but overall it seems pretty

 

 

Yeah, this is really perplexing...

 

Because we posted a photo with some text and hashtags.  We got 15 other clicks (presumably  on the hashtags)  - no likes or comments.  And final reach was that empty bucket sound: 34

 

If obtaining user engagement through clicks on the hashtags mattered at all, we should have seen a better reach number.

 

 

 I find it strange that more likes/comments/shares doesn't correlate to a higher organic reach, but post clicks does.

 

Personally, we're moving toward the conventional idea that likes and comments do matter with reach (obviously) -- BUT mainly after initially making the post.  Maybe it's like FB is passing a hot baton... If we don't get likes and comments within the first few hours, and the baton starts to cool, our post starts to sputter and die.  Perhaps that's why time of day and day of the week matters so much.

 

So we agree, more likes/comments/shares doesn't equate exactly with reach.  But getting likes/comments/shares certainly doesn't hurt, right?  So that's how the conventional wisdom is right.  And then, it seems like you can enhance your non-fan reach through hashtags and perhaps other unknown ways.



#64 RSMellette

RSMellette

    I Have Many Skills.

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Literary Status:published, in-between agents
  • LocationUS Southwest
  • Publishing Experience:The Xena Scrolls on-line and episode TV credit. I worked on the show for the first two years.
    Billy Bobble Makes A Magic Wand, Dec. 2014 Elephant's Bookshelf Press

Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:03 PM

Okay ... now that I have a Facebook page, I have to laugh at "0 people reached, 4 Likes and 1 Comment" on the same post. 


From Elephant's Bookshelf Press

 

51xExIpByyL._SS140_SH35_.jpg51n1zBAR2vL._SS140_SH35_.jpg

by R.S. Mellette

"WOW. That is the first word that comes to mind when I think about how I felt reading this book - WOW. I was so pleasantly surprised - oh, let's be honest, it was more like blown away!" -- Holy B. In NC, Amazon Review.


#65 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 08 October 2014 - 07:23 AM

Okay ... now that I have a Facebook page, I have to laugh at "0 people reached, 4 Likes and 1 Comment" on the same post. 

 

Is it still sitting at zero?  Was that your very first post on your FB author page?

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, we just dispelled our own "hot baton" theory regarding likes/comments/shares.

 

Our two most recent posts (book promo posts) each got approx. 140 reach (which for us, is a good reach), and neither one of them was propelled by likes/comments/shares. One post did eventually pick up 2 likes, but that was at the very end of the 24-hour window and those "likes" didn't keep the momentum going.

 

What was notable: 1. They were Friday and Monday posts. 2. they were very similar in sentiment to our previous book promo posts that always perform well  3. posting frequency was every few days

 

#2 now is our new theory -- Facebook's algos KNOW the type of posts your fans like inherently and shoots THOSE posts out to your fan-base with speed.  In other words, the way you build your fan-base and the posts you use to build that fan-base might be the key to how certain posts obtain "reach" later on...

 

We'd prefer to not think FB is that smart, but alas... they might be.  

 

Here's what we DO know: our spammie repetitive book promo posts continue to perform higher than 100, and anything else only gets about a 30-40 reach in comparison. And that's all with minimum post engagement.

 

Over time, if we continue to post "personality" posts and get likes for those, their reach might increase -- but right now, apparently our fans prefer to be spammed.



#66 Litgal

Litgal

    Veteran Queen Bee -- Moderator "Here Be Historicals"

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,496 posts
  • Literary Status:published, agented
  • LocationUS Northeast
  • Publishing Experience:My debut novel, "The Sister Queens," (March 2012/NAL), was set in 13th century France and England and wove the captivating story of sisters, Marguerite and Eleanor of Provence, who both became queens. My next solo novel, "Medicis Daughter," (Dec 1 2015/Thomas Dunne) traveled forward three-hundred years to the intrigue-riven French Valois court, spinning the tale of beautiful princess Marguerite who walks the knife edge between the demands of her serpentine mother, Catherine de Medicis, and those of her own conscience.

    In between I became a "hybrid" as part of a group of six authors involved in a high concept novel-in-six-parts called "A Day of Fire" which released in November of 2014. The book, "A Day of Fire," tells the story of the final days of the doomed city of Pompeii in a way you've never read it before.

    In October 2019 my next novel--another group project co-written with 5 other amazing, multi-published historical novelists--"Ribbons of Scarlet" will be released by William Morrow. A novel of the French Revolution's Women, Ribbons of Scarlet is a timely story of the power of women to start a revolution—and change the world.

Posted 08 October 2014 - 09:00 AM

I must "like" your page so I can observe all this first hand. Can you direct me please?


Lit. (aka Sophie Perinot)

#67 RSMellette

RSMellette

    I Have Many Skills.

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Literary Status:published, in-between agents
  • LocationUS Southwest
  • Publishing Experience:The Xena Scrolls on-line and episode TV credit. I worked on the show for the first two years.
    Billy Bobble Makes A Magic Wand, Dec. 2014 Elephant's Bookshelf Press

Posted 08 October 2014 - 10:21 AM

It was one of my early posts, and I think it has some reach numbers now.  I try not to sweat the numbers too much.  It can get paralyticly addictive.  I figure it's more of a broad indicator thing than specifics.

 

I do like the fact that my book isn't even out yet and I have 270+ likes.  I think that bodes well. 


From Elephant's Bookshelf Press

 

51xExIpByyL._SS140_SH35_.jpg51n1zBAR2vL._SS140_SH35_.jpg

by R.S. Mellette

"WOW. That is the first word that comes to mind when I think about how I felt reading this book - WOW. I was so pleasantly surprised - oh, let's be honest, it was more like blown away!" -- Holy B. In NC, Amazon Review.


#68 mwsinclair

mwsinclair

    Elephant with a trunk full of novels

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,862 posts
  • Literary Status:published, unagented, media
  • LocationUS Northeast
  • Publishing Experience:Journalist covering U.S. nonprofits, foundations, and life in general. President and Chief Elephant Officer of Elephant's Bookshelf Press, LLC. Since establishing the company in 2012, we have published more than a dozen books, including several short story anthologies and debut novels by several AQC authors including "ScubaSteve" Carman and R.S. Mellette. Midway through 2018, we've already published our first nonfiction title, "Which the Days Never Know," and are putting together an omnibus collection of the Seasons Series of anthologies, with launch expected by the Christmas season. And in 2019, there will be much more, with news to come soon!

Posted 08 October 2014 - 12:57 PM

Or it means you know a lot of people, but I prefer to think it bodes well, too.



#69 RSMellette

RSMellette

    I Have Many Skills.

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Literary Status:published, in-between agents
  • LocationUS Southwest
  • Publishing Experience:The Xena Scrolls on-line and episode TV credit. I worked on the show for the first two years.
    Billy Bobble Makes A Magic Wand, Dec. 2014 Elephant's Bookshelf Press

Posted 08 October 2014 - 02:10 PM

Besides the typical friends and family, most of these are filmmakers and novelists who have pages of their own, so they understand what's going on.  I have 2.300 friends on my personal page, mostly from working the film festival, so 270+ is a little over 10%, which is what I would expect.  It will be interesting to see how many sales that leads to.


From Elephant's Bookshelf Press

 

51xExIpByyL._SS140_SH35_.jpg51n1zBAR2vL._SS140_SH35_.jpg

by R.S. Mellette

"WOW. That is the first word that comes to mind when I think about how I felt reading this book - WOW. I was so pleasantly surprised - oh, let's be honest, it was more like blown away!" -- Holy B. In NC, Amazon Review.


#70 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:37 AM

 

#2 now is our new theory -- Facebook's algos KNOW the type of posts your fans like inherently and shoots THOSE posts out to your fan-base with speed.  In other words, the way you build your fan-base and the posts you use to build that fan-base might be the key to how certain posts obtain "reach" later on...

 

 

So for those of you following this thread... we have a refinement to this theory after talking to AQTechie.

 

We just posted another B&W two-person photo -- which also is the same type of customized link post, leading directly to our book's Amazon page.  

 

And the FB post is already taking off in terms of reach.  It should be noted, when we first started posting on our FB author page, these types of posts had a reach of about 40,50, then 60.  Now, we're averaging 140-170.  Maybe correlates in our fan number increase?  But really, the major reach increase has happened over the past month (see the start of this thread) -- and our fan number hasn't increased THAT much during that time period.

 

At this point, it's becoming impossible to analyze exactly why we're getting our reach boost on our spammie book promos without likes/comments/shares propelling them initially, except to say that FB knows that our B&W two people photos have performed well in the past on our FB author page.  So FB is shooting out more of the same to our fans.  

 

Now that we've exhausted our own personal "reach" experiments and theories, we're going to move onto testing FB paid ads.  

 

We dabbled in them early on, but now that we understand FB so much better, we're going to try to do more controlled experiments with all 4-5 different types of ads that FB offers.  

 

We'll start a new post after we collect data & details as well as how much we spend along the way.



#71 RSMellette

RSMellette

    I Have Many Skills.

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Literary Status:published, in-between agents
  • LocationUS Southwest
  • Publishing Experience:The Xena Scrolls on-line and episode TV credit. I worked on the show for the first two years.
    Billy Bobble Makes A Magic Wand, Dec. 2014 Elephant's Bookshelf Press

Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:48 AM

I just did an experiment of my own.

 

I wanted to test your instructions for posting a clickable picture - which worked wonderfully, thanks!

 

I posted a link to the Amazon page for Spring Fevers, telling my followers (that makes me sound like Guru... fans makes me sound like an egotist... oh, well) ... where was I?

 

Oh, I suggested to the people on my page that they check out my short story in Spring Fevers while we wait on Billy Bobble.  A few hours later, I shared the link on my personal page.  I've gotten a reach of 241 people.

 

I think it might be because the first words on the post are "IT'S FREE!"


From Elephant's Bookshelf Press

 

51xExIpByyL._SS140_SH35_.jpg51n1zBAR2vL._SS140_SH35_.jpg

by R.S. Mellette

"WOW. That is the first word that comes to mind when I think about how I felt reading this book - WOW. I was so pleasantly surprised - oh, let's be honest, it was more like blown away!" -- Holy B. In NC, Amazon Review.


#72 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:52 AM

 

Oh, I suggested to the people on my page that they check out my short story in Spring Fevers while we wait on Billy Bobble.  A few hours later, I shared the link on my personal page.  I've gotten a reach of 241 people.

 

I think it might be because the first words on the post are "IT'S FREE!"

 

Yeah, definitely could be the FREE.  Also, we have seen people discussing how sharing the post from your author page onto your personal profile does increase reach.

 

We've never done that because we're trying to avoid our profile like a bad friend.



#73 J. Lea Lopez

J. Lea Lopez

    Glamourscribe

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,043 posts
  • Literary Status:self-published, unagented
  • LocationUS Midwest
  • Publishing Experience:My work first appeared in Divine Dirt Quarterly and Oysters&Chocolate. Sadly, these are both out of print now. More recently, my short stories have appeared in two anthologies (The Spring and The Fall) from Elephant's Bookshelf Press. I have self published two novels and a short story collection.

Posted 09 October 2014 - 01:39 PM


Now that we've exhausted our own personal "reach" experiments and theories, we're going to move onto testing FB paid ads.  

 

We dabbled in them early on, but now that we understand FB so much better, we're going to try to do more controlled experiments with all 4-5 different types of ads that FB offers.  

 

We'll start a new post after we collect data & details as well as how much we spend along the way.

Just make sure your image doesn't contain more than 20% text.... *grumble grumble*  :humph:



#74 mwsinclair

mwsinclair

    Elephant with a trunk full of novels

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,862 posts
  • Literary Status:published, unagented, media
  • LocationUS Northeast
  • Publishing Experience:Journalist covering U.S. nonprofits, foundations, and life in general. President and Chief Elephant Officer of Elephant's Bookshelf Press, LLC. Since establishing the company in 2012, we have published more than a dozen books, including several short story anthologies and debut novels by several AQC authors including "ScubaSteve" Carman and R.S. Mellette. Midway through 2018, we've already published our first nonfiction title, "Which the Days Never Know," and are putting together an omnibus collection of the Seasons Series of anthologies, with launch expected by the Christmas season. And in 2019, there will be much more, with news to come soon!

Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:58 PM

FWIW, we have not seen a huge bump in downloads of Spring Fevers -- at least not via Kindle.



#75 RSMellette

RSMellette

    I Have Many Skills.

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Literary Status:published, in-between agents
  • LocationUS Southwest
  • Publishing Experience:The Xena Scrolls on-line and episode TV credit. I worked on the show for the first two years.
    Billy Bobble Makes A Magic Wand, Dec. 2014 Elephant's Bookshelf Press

Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:39 AM

I think I know of one person who downloaded it from that posting... which is about right stats wise.

From Elephant's Bookshelf Press

 

51xExIpByyL._SS140_SH35_.jpg51n1zBAR2vL._SS140_SH35_.jpg

by R.S. Mellette

"WOW. That is the first word that comes to mind when I think about how I felt reading this book - WOW. I was so pleasantly surprised - oh, let's be honest, it was more like blown away!" -- Holy B. In NC, Amazon Review.


#76 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 30 November 2014 - 11:57 AM

We are now averaging 300 reach for every "spam" advertisement post that we make on our fan page, and approximately 30-40 direct link clicks (which link directly to our Amazon sales page).  

 

We are happy with the growth of our reach on our "spam" posts -- it used to only be 100 -- although admittedly we don't know why considering we are doing the exact same thing and using the same hashtags.  Current number of fan page followers is 1400, so up from 1000 followers.

 

And just to be completely contrarian with the world of publishing authors, we have basically changed our mindset, and mainly now treat our Facebook fan page as an advertisement tool rather than fan engagement site.  



#77 J. Lea Lopez

J. Lea Lopez

    Glamourscribe

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,043 posts
  • Literary Status:self-published, unagented
  • LocationUS Midwest
  • Publishing Experience:My work first appeared in Divine Dirt Quarterly and Oysters&Chocolate. Sadly, these are both out of print now. More recently, my short stories have appeared in two anthologies (The Spring and The Fall) from Elephant's Bookshelf Press. I have self published two novels and a short story collection.

Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:48 PM

Do you feel your "spam" posts drive actual sales of your book? And has the ratio of fans to non-fans seeing your posts changed? Just curious.

#78 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 30 November 2014 - 07:41 PM

Do you feel your "spam" posts drive actual sales of your book? And has the ratio of fans to non-fans seeing your posts changed? Just curious.

 

Really good questions (nice to see your face, BTW, pop up from being buried in the snow storm)

 

For the most recent three posts that didn't receive a paid "boost" :

 

1. Total reach: 392 (310 fans/82 non-fans)

 

2. Total reach: 255 (183 fans/ 72 non-fans)

 

3. Total reach: 345 (315 fans/ 30 non-fans)

 

As for sales, it's impossible to know... but yes, we definitely think FB actually sells our books.  We know that's an extremely contrarian opinion, but we've strategically run boosted posts now for the month of November (but not every day of the month), and the data has NOT proven that FB does NOT increase borrows and sales.

 

Obviously, because Amazon doesn't give us sales analytics, we can't confirm our borrows/sales bumps are directly correlating with our controlled FB paid post boosts, but we doubt they're just "coincidence" either.



#79 J. Lea Lopez

J. Lea Lopez

    Glamourscribe

  • Group Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,043 posts
  • Literary Status:self-published, unagented
  • LocationUS Midwest
  • Publishing Experience:My work first appeared in Divine Dirt Quarterly and Oysters&Chocolate. Sadly, these are both out of print now. More recently, my short stories have appeared in two anthologies (The Spring and The Fall) from Elephant's Bookshelf Press. I have self published two novels and a short story collection.

Posted 30 November 2014 - 09:03 PM

That's iiiinteresting. It really would be terrific if we got some sort of analytics from Amazon about where sales are coming from. Although I suppose if they gave us that, we'd be able to use it to our advantage and potentially to their disadvantage. I really didn't want to give FB any more of my money after they screwed me over the first time I tried to boost... But maybe I'll have to try again when I have some wiggle room in the budget.

And yes, I'm popping up out of the writing cave and the snowstorm haha. That was the most interesting two days of my life without power. But we still got to eat our turkey!

#80 AQCrew

AQCrew

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 2,740 posts
  • Literary Status:industry insider
  • LocationPacific Islands

Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:34 AM

I really didn't want to give FB any more of my money after they screwed me over the first time I tried to boost... But maybe I'll have to try again when I have some wiggle room in the budget.
 

 

So the whole thing with FB paid advertising is that it's a beast to tame.  A beast.

  

A. Everyone is mad that FB came in a year ago or whatever and started offering paid advertising, but took away organic reach.

 

We get that, but we were never on FB prior to very recently, so that's a non-issue for us.  And in fact, we see it as a plus because we want to be doing what everyone isn't because there's less competition.

 

B. FB makes advertising on their platform extremely hard to learn and not intuitive at all.

 

BUT the potential reach and specific demographic targetting you can do through FB is ridiculous (ie. awesome) and being completely overlooked by everyone. Again, because FB makes it so friggin' hard.

 

But we see that as nothing but a positive thing: nobody seems to be paying for advertising for their books via Facebook, so maybe that's why it seems to be working for us right now.  There's not a ton of competition and the ultimate cost-per-engagement rate is a pittance.

 

C. We don't throw up our book cover and use that as our advertisement.  As you know, we stumbled upon how to make a customized FB post that clicks straight to our Amazon's sales page.  Man, what a freakin' awesome discovery THAT's been....we think that's a huge part of our FB "success" -- both on the paid and free side for our posts.

 

D. We've had ads get down to $0.07 per engagement versus $0.30 -- you obviously want $0.07 -- but demographics and "interests" keyword drive the cost-per-engagement rate, and it's not obvious when you select your keywords what your rate ultimately will be... so yeah, that's going to turn off a lot of people.  We've probably spent about $150 just this month in paid FB ad experiments and we still have no idea which keywords are costing us what.

 

E.  Facebook's advertising TOS is very restrictive -- as you know.  There's the 20% text rule (which all the FB guru advertisers crow about) and then there's a ton of other "content" restrictions regarding the type of posts you can promote.  Again, another turn-off for many...

 

We've been determined to power through and "win".  But really, it's better for us if everyone else just doesn't bother.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users