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#1 TinaHamilton

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 04:37 PM

I found this post on another site and I imagine there are probably some authors from this site as well.

http://www.facebook.com/tuebl

This is a Facebook page of a group trying to create a "Lending Library" for ebooks. Essentially giving your book away for free.

#2 Lori Sjoberg

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:52 PM

:blink:

#3 RC Lewis

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:15 AM

Thanks for posting about this, Tina. I spotted some of my agent's authors' books there, so I emailed her. She mentioned one time when they found a site similar to this one, downloading the ebook brought malware into your system, so if you're thinking to download as a check, be careful. She also said she'd bring it to the attention of the publisher.

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#4 TinaHamilton

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:51 AM

Partner sites to this one... The owner http://travismccrea.com/ and where they try to intimidate authors.

http://cheapassficti...akedown-letter/

#5 Robin Breyer

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:23 AM

Talk about illegal. And they are proud of it. I can't wait until they fall hard. They are flaunting the the law and I bet they will pay for it.

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#6 TinaHamilton

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:06 AM

Couple of more links for people to report to....

Since they are hiding behind Canadian law.... well here you go.

www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fep-pelf/ipr-dpi/guide-eng.htm#checklist

Reporting the website abuse to the domain holder was suggested on another site.

https://secure.zonee...hp?siteid=37285

#7 AeliusBlythe

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

Partner sites to this one... The owner http://travismccrea.com/ and where they try to intimidate authors.

http://cheapassficti...akedown-letter/



Since I am the author of the second site you linked to, can you please clarify what you mean by "intimidate authors?"

#8 C. Taylor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:56 AM

I've been having a ton of problems with my book showing up on all sorts of sites. Some don't even give you any way to contact them to take down your work.

Aelius, I haven't seen your site with regards to intimidation, but I will say that Tuebl's action to publicly post the author's letters when they request their books be removed from the site could easily be seen as a move to intimidate authors.

I offer some of my books for free, but I also depend on the others as income.

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#9 Cat Woods

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

And here I thought it was a site for books on pirates. Disappointed to say the least.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Cali. Hopefully, you will be able to get it under control. Of course, the flipside to all this is that cheap consumers are as much to blame as the pirates who encourage stealing copyrighted material.

RC, that's sad to hear about your agent's authors' work appearing there as well. Just goest to show how vigilant writes need to be with their work. I'm so glad your agent is being proactive in reporting the site in question.

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#10 AeliusBlythe

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:30 AM

Aelius, I haven't seen your site with regards to intimidation, but I will say that Tuebl's action to publicly post the author's letters when they request their books be removed from the site could easily be seen as a move to intimidate authors.


Publicly posting letters might be a problem were TUEBL being asked to remove their own material, but they're not. TUEBL is a site for user uploaded material - when they remove material, they are removing copies that they did not upload, but rather copies uploaded by the community. Without public disclosure which affords the opportunity for public discussion, TUEBL would likely suffer a similar condition as sites like, say, YouTube where user-uploaded pieces are taken down by the thousands, often mistakenly and without any opportunity for defense or discussion.

I offer some of my books for free, but I also depend on the others as income.

May I ask why you think TUEBL and similar sites would affect your income?

#11 C. Taylor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:38 AM

The way Tuebl makes the statement in their contact area comes off as intimidation. It did to me, at any rate.

As for why I think it would affect me income? If someone is downloading my book for free off one of these sites, rather than off a site that in turn pays me my royalty, then I'm clearly not making that income. And my income from my books isn't so grand as to not be affected.

Cali MacKay

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#12 C. Taylor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Cat, I think people that download the free content off these sites forget that it took the writer a considerable amount of their time to produce their work. Often times a year or more of ignoring family and friends daily, of shirking other things in order to find the time to create these books, not to mention the cost of having the manuscripts edited, formatted, covers made, etc. And many of these books are put out by individuals-- not publishers-- so it's not like this is taking from a multi million dollar corporation. Not that it would make it right then either.

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#13 Cat Woods

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:48 AM

Probably, Cali. Or they choose to ignore it because they don't have a strong moral compass that tells them stealing is always wrong.

"Free" is always at the expense of others.

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#14 AeliusBlythe

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:49 AM

As for why I think it would affect me income? If someone is downloading my book for free off one of these sites, rather than off a site that in turn pays me my royalty, then I'm clearly not making that income.


But that's not the question. The question is what makes you think that you would have gotten that income?

I assume that you are familiar with the O'Reilly study on piracy?

We would look at the impact of what sales looked like before there was piracy, say for four to eight weeks, and then we’d look at the impact of piracy afterward. Essentially, if the net impact of piracy is negative, then you would see sales fall off more quickly after piracy; if it were positive, the opposite.
Data that we collected for the titles O’Reilly put out showed a net lift in sales for books that had been pirated. So, it actually spurred, not hurt, sales.


While proof of any affect of piracy on sales is certainly far off, claims that an author is entitled to money from everyone who has pirated their book are also on shaky ground.

#15 AeliusBlythe

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:50 AM

Cat, I think people that download the free content off these sites forget that it took the writer a considerable amount of their time to produce their work. Often times a year or more of ignoring family and friends daily, of shirking other things in order to find the time to create these books, not to mention the cost of having the manuscripts edited, formatted, covers made, etc. And many of these books are put out by individuals-- not publishers-- so it's not like this is taking from a multi million dollar corporation. Not that it would make it right then either.


Again, I'd like to ask why do you think this? Many pirates are authors or artists and are intimately acquainted with the effort and investment required to produce work.

#16 Cat Woods

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:02 PM

...claims that an author is entitled to money from everyone who has pirated their book are also on shaky ground.


I'm so confused as to how this is even a viable argument.

Pirating is illegal. Period. For everyone involved.

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#17 C. Taylor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:02 PM

Then I'd think they'd show more respect for the effort that writer put into their work. If the author wants to give their work away for free, that's fine, and I have done so in the past, but that's my choice as the artist-- not someone else's.

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#18 C. Taylor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:04 PM

As for what makes me think I'm getting that income? I see my sales, and they send me a check-- it's not like I'm getting that from Tuebl.

As far as piracy helping sales? The evidence can be scewed one way or the other. What were these? Double blind tests? Run by whom? Please.

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#19 RC Lewis

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:08 PM

The O'Reilly study was based on data from at least 3 years ago, so I have problems with using it in any argument of eBooks today. The changes in the e-publishing landscape between then and now are enormous.

Beyond that, a common misconception when looking at data is to attribute a cause-effect relationship, as seen by the comment, "So, it actually spurred, not hurt, sales." Even if there is a correlation between piracy and sales, that does not mean the piracy SPURRED the sales. Perhaps it means the book in question gained in popularity and visibility, which is probably how it got on pirates radars anyway. (Just a thought.) I find the attitude among some pirates of "We're actually doing you a FAVOR" to be extremely disingenuous.

Bottom line, as Cat said: It's illegal. It's wrong.

If pirates who are artists/authors themselves want to give away all their work for free, more power to them. They have no right to make that choice for the rest of us.

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#20 AeliusBlythe

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:33 PM

The O'Reilly study was based on data from at least 3 years ago, so I have problems with using it in any argument of eBooks today. The changes in the e-publishing landscape between then and now are enormous.


The problem being that despite pressing for harsher anti-piracy measures, the publishing industry has failed to come up with any more current data - and, more specifically, current data that demonstrates that piracy is dangerous.

Bottom line, as Cat said: It's illegal. It's wrong.



The argument that what is illegal is also immoral astounds and disappoints me beyond words. That artists - historically speaking, the questioning voices that persist and often fly in the face of law - would argue this is just beyond me.




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